Millisecond Forums » Millisecond Forums » Inquisit 3 » wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Anna Halm — Fri, 13 May 2016 09:18:42 GMT

The main idea is to chose randomly the order of blocks from a set of 4 different block within an experiment. In the end all block should have been presented. Every block contains two trails (one audio file and a set of three items). Again, all audio files and items should be show. So it's really only about the order of the blocks.

I tried to use the noreplace on a block-level. As a result, one of the three items from both blocks are chosen and the others won't show up. Am I wrong to use noreplace in this case?

<expt>
/ subjects = (1 of 2)
/ blocks = [1-4=noreplace(A1, A2, A3, A4)]
</expt>

<expt>
/ subjects = (2 of 2)
/ blocks = [1-2=noreplace(B1, B2, B3, B4)]
</expt>

Thanks a lot!

Anna

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Luise — Fri, 13 May 2016 09:18:42 GMT

Sorry...I had not read your answer before...great! I will fix those parts! Thank you very much!

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Luise — Fri, 13 May 2016 09:16:12 GMT

It is not easy to say which pictures are repeating because every time I try the experiment different pictures repeat and sometimes they repeat more than once.
Pictures that were repeated the last time I tried the experiment were:

0258_f_portrait_20150420_z

0338_f_portrait_20150505_z

0386_f_portrait_20150505_z

0556_f_portrait_20150608_z

0626_f_portrait_20150522_z

0840_f_portrait_20150615_z

0970_f_portrait_20150617_z

1076_f_portrait_20150618_z

1866_f_portrait_20151125_z

2073_f_portrait_20151110_z

2341_f_portrait_20151210_z

... in the first half of the experiment. In the second half I remembered a repetition of:

0371_f_portrait_20151106_z

2210_f_portrait_20151130_z

2170_f_portrait_20151130_z

2238_f_portrait_20151130_z

0536_f_portrait_20150427_z

0548_f_portrait_20150518_z

1920_f_portrait_20151120_z

This picture "0386_f_portrait_20150505_z" was repeated three times in the first half of the experiment. I do not think that I messed up the order or names of some pictures but that there is a more fundamental problem in my programming.
Thanks again for your time...Do you have any idea what is happening in my experiment?

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Dave — Fri, 13 May 2016 07:17:30 GMT

Mistakes:

#1:
<block blockp50>/ trials = [1=person_10]</block>

#2:
/blocks = [...;
10-110= noreplace(
blockp1,blockp2,blockp3,blockp4,blockp5,blockp6,blockp7,blockp8,blockp9,blockp10,
blockp11,blockp12,blockp13,blockp14,blockp15,blockp16,blockp17,blockp18,blockp19,blockp20,
blockp21,blockp22,blockp23,blockp24,blockp25,blockp26,blockp27,blockp28,blockp29,blockp30,
blockp31,blockp32,blockp33,blockp34,blockp35,blockp36,blockp37,blockp38,blockp39,blockp40,
blockp41,blockp42,blockp43,blockp44,blockp45,blockp46,blockp47,blockp48,blockp49,blockp50,
blockp51,blockp52,blockp53,blockp54,blockp55,blockp56,blockp57,blockp58,blockp59,blockp60,
blockp61,blockp62,blockp63,blockp64,blockp65,blockp66,blockp67,blockp68,blockp69,blockp70,
blockp71,blockp72,blockp73,blockp74,blockp75,blockp76,blockp77,blockp78,blockp79,blockp80,
blockp81,blockp82,blockp83,blockp84,blockp85,blockp86,blockp87,blockp88,blockp89,blockp90,
blockp91,blockp92,blockp93,blockp94,blockp95,blockp96,blockp97,blockp98,blockp99,blockp100);
...

10 to 110 is not taking 100 samples. It is taking 101 samples which messes up the selection pool completely.

The above needs to read

10-109= noreplace(
blockp1,blockp2,blockp3,blockp4,blockp5,blockp6,blockp7,blockp8,blockp9,blockp10,
blockp11,blockp12,blockp13,blockp14,blockp15,blockp16,blockp17,blockp18,blockp19,blockp20,
blockp21,blockp22,blockp23,blockp24,blockp25,blockp26,blockp27,blockp28,blockp29,blockp30,
blockp31,blockp32,blockp33,blockp34,blockp35,blockp36,blockp37,blockp38,blockp39,blockp40,
blockp41,blockp42,blockp43,blockp44,blockp45,blockp46,blockp47,blockp48,blockp49,blockp50,
blockp51,blockp52,blockp53,blockp54,blockp55,blockp56,blockp57,blockp58,blockp59,blockp60,
blockp61,blockp62,blockp63,blockp64,blockp65,blockp66,blockp67,blockp68,blockp69,blockp70,
blockp71,blockp72,blockp73,blockp74,blockp75,blockp76,blockp77,blockp78,blockp79,blockp80,
blockp81,blockp82,blockp83,blockp84,blockp85,blockp86,blockp87,blockp88,blockp89,blockp90,
blockp91,blockp92,blockp93,blockp94,blockp95,blockp96,blockp97,blockp98,blockp99,blockp100);
...

#3: Here too

113-210=noreplace(
blockp101,blockp102,blockp103,blockp104,blockp105,blockp106,blockp107,blockp108,blockp109,blockp110,
blockp111,blockp112,blockp113,blockp114,blockp115,blockp116,blockp117,blockp118,blockp119,blockp120,
blockp121,blockp122,blockp123,blockp124,blockp125,blockp126,blockp127,blockp128,blockp129,blockp130,
blockp131,blockp132,blockp133,blockp134,blockp135,blockp136,blockp137,blockp138,blockp139,blockp140,
blockp141,blockp142,blockp143,blockp144,blockp145,blockp146,blockp147,blockp148,blockp149,blockp150,
blockp151,blockp152,blockp153,blockp154,blockp155,blockp156,blockp157,blockp158,blockp159,blockp160,
blockp161,blockp162,blockp163,blockp164,blockp165,blockp166,blockp167,blockp168,blockp169,blockp170,
blockp171,blockp172,blockp173,blockp174,blockp175,blockp176,blockp177,blockp178,blockp179,blockp180,
blockp181,blockp182,blockp183,blockp184,blockp185,blockp186,blockp187,blockp188,blockp189,blockp190,
blockp191,blockp192,blockp193,blockp194,blockp195,blockp196,blockp197);

this isn't drawing 97 samples. It's drawing 98.

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Dave — Fri, 13 May 2016 06:58:56 GMT

It would be helpful if you could specify *which* pictures (by name) you think are being repeated.

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Luise — Fri, 13 May 2016 06:05:04 GMT

Hi again...thank you for your offer. I really appreciate it. I searched for mistakes and tried a few more ideas I had, but some pictures are still presented more than once and I just cannnot figure out why. So you find my script attached to this message. It would be great if you could afford to take a look at it.

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Dave — Thu, 12 May 2016 11:23:08 GMT

Go through it and see if you can spot anything along the lines outlined in the previous reply. If you can't find any (or all of the) mistakes and need a second pair of eyes, attach the script file to this thread (click +Insert -> Add File) and I'll be happy to take a look.

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Luise — Thu, 12 May 2016 10:55:13 GMT

Thank you...I will search for mistakes again then. It is good to know that in theory the way I used should work.

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Dave — Thu, 12 May 2016 10:27:03 GMT

To add: You very likely have *mistakes* in your script that make you *think* a certain block is repeated.

What could those mistakes be?

#1: You have <block>s that run the wrong <likert>, i.e. something like

<block blockp5>
/ trials = [1=person_3]
</block>

#2: You have <likert>s that display the wrong <picture>, i.e., something like

<likert person_5>
...
/ stimulusframes = [1= pic_3, cue1]
...
</likert>

and/or

#3: You have <picture>s that display the wrong item

<picture pic_5>
...
/ items = ("3.jpg")
...
</picture>

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Dave — Thu, 12 May 2016 10:17:50 GMT

There is no problem here. If you have specified your noreplace() pool in the <expt>'s /blocks attribute correctly, i.e., there are 100 blocks listed and every block is only listed a single time, each block will be run exactly once. /resetinterval has nothing to do with it. /resetinterval determines whether a stimulus element's selection pool should be reset between blocks or not.

<expt>
/ blocks = [1-4 = noreplace(a,b,c,d)]
</expt>

with

<block a>
...
</block>

<block b>
...
</block>

<block c>
...
</block>

<block d>
...
</block>

will result in a random order of blocks a, b, c and d -- with each block run exactly once.

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Luise — Thu, 12 May 2016 10:08:36 GMT

Do you have any advice how to fix this problem? I´d be really greatful!

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Luise — Thu, 12 May 2016 10:05:41 GMT

My main idea is the same as Anna had. In my experiment I need to randomly present 100 blocks without replacement. I want every block to be presented exactly once and in a random order. "Noreplace" does not seem to work. There are always some blocks presented more than once. I also tried </defaults> / resetinterval = 0 </defaults> but maybe I am using it the wrong way or it does not help neither.
This is how (the important part of my) experiment looks like:

<defaults> / font = ("Arial", -21, 400, 0, 34)
/ txbgcolor = (250, 250, 250) / screencolor = (250, 250, 250)
/ pretrialpause = 0 / posttrialpause = 150
/endlock = true
/ resetinterval = 0
</defaults>

<text cue1>
/ numitems = 1
/ items = ("xy")
/ font = ("Arial", -37, 700, 0, 34) / position = (50,85) / color = (0, 0, 0) / area = (900,200)
</text>

<picture pic_1>/numitems = 1 / items = ("1.jpg") / position = (50, 1) / valign = top / size=(672, 813,12)</picture>
<picture pic_2>/numitems = 1 / items = ("2.jpg") / position = (50, 1) / valign = top / size=(672, 813,12)</picture>
<picture pic_3>/numitems = 1 / items = ("3.jpg") / position = (50, 1) / valign = top / size=(672, 813,12)</picture>

<likert person_1> / numpoints = 7 / anchors = [1 = "gar nicht"; 7 = "sehr"]
    / stimulusframes = [1= pic_1, cue1] / position = (50, 90) / anchorwidth = 6% </likert>

<likert person_2> / numpoints = 7 / anchors = [1 = "gar nicht"; 7 = "sehr"]
    / stimulusframes = [1= pic_2, cue1] / position = (50, 90) / anchorwidth = 6% </likert>

<likert person_3> / numpoints = 7 / anchors = [1 = "gar nicht"; 7 = "sehr"]
    / stimulusframes = [1= pic_3, cue1] / position = (50, 90) / anchorwidth = 6% </likert>
...

<block blockp1>/ trials = [1=person_1]</block>
<block blockp2>/ trials = [1=person_2]</block>
<block blockp3>/ trials = [1=person_3]</block>
...

<expt ratings>
/ blocks = [1-100= noreplace (blockp1,blockp2,blockp3,blockp4,blockp5, ..., blockp100)]
</expt>

RE: wanted noreplace on blocks but got selection of items

Dave — Wed, 16 Oct 2013 07:50:06 GMT

How you sample blocks at the expt level *has nothing to do with* and is *completely unrelated to* how *trials may sample stimuli within those blocks*. Please see the documentation for the /resetinterval attribute for details.