Millisecond Forums » Millisecond Forums » Inquisit 5 » no matching image numbers in the same task

no matching image numbers in the same task

tecnika — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 03:01:40 GMT

Hi Dave,

I am trying to randomly assign 24 pairs of items (food and non food) in 4 tasks (12 couples each) in a way than the tasks of the same type (e.g. estimate1 and estimate2) contain all the 24 pairs of items with no repetition (12 pairs on estimate1 and 12 different pairs in estimate2). I would like then to apply a similar procedure for the other couple of tasks (the distributions of the pairs can be different from the distribution of the first two tasks).
The pairs of items need to be presented in the same task but in a random order and they can or cannot be adjacent (e.g., F1, F3, nF2, F5, nF5, nF1, nF3, F2 ....).

I tried different way with a list but I was not successful... any idea? I send you the file in attachment.

RE: no matching image numbers in the same task

tecnika — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 03:01:40 GMT

[quote]

[b]Dave - Wednesday, July 18, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Wednesday, July 18, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]Dave - Tuesday, July 17, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Tuesday, July 17, 2018[/b]

Hi Dave, thank you for your reply. With the method in the link I can only present the stimuli consecutively in the pair one after another, but I would like to randomize them among the 24 items. Also a food trial can be followed by another food trial and the same for the non food trials. So I changed to the below code to try to create a random lists of 12 numbers from 1 to 24 for fill the food sequence list and to use the same 12 previously selected numbers to fill the list of non-food (in a different order). It looks like I made quite complicated, I am aware of it...and what I got as a result is that the same pictures of food and non-food are repeated. Can you see how this problem can be fixed? Many thanks

<picture non_food>
/ items = non_food
/ size = (list.imageSize.nextvalue, list.imageSize.nextvalue)
/ position = (list.imagePositionA.nextvalue, list.imagePositionB.nextvalue)
/ select = list.image_sequence_Nfood.nextvalue
/ erase = false
</picture>

<picture food>
/ items = food
/ size = (list.imageSize.nextvalue, list.imageSize.nextvalue)
/ position = (list.imagePositionA.nextvalue, list.imagePositionB.nextvalue)
/ select = list.image_sequence_food.nextvalue
/ erase = false
</picture>

<picture half_non_food>
/ items = non_food
/ size = (list.imageSize.nextvalue/2, list.imageSize.nextvalue/2)
/ position = (list.imagePositionA.nextvalue, list.imagePositionB.nextvalue)
/ erase = false
/ select = list.image_sequence_Nfood.nextvalue
</picture>

<picture half_food>
/ items = food
/ size = (list.imageSize.nextvalue/2, list.imageSize.nextvalue/2)
/ position = (list.imagePositionA.nextvalue, list.imagePositionB.nextvalue)
/ select = list.image_sequence_food.nextvalue
/ erase = false
</picture>

<list image_index>
/ items=(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24)
</list>

/ onblockbegin = [values.block_nr = values.block_nr + 1]
/ onblockbegin = [{
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_food.appenditem(list.image_index.nextindex);

list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
list.image_sequence_Nfood.appenditem(list.image_sequence_food.nextindex);
}]

/ onblockbegin = [values.trial_nr = 0]

/ trials = [1=Sizing2_instr; 2-25 = noreplace(sizing1_food,sizing1_food,sizing1_food,sizing1_food,sizing1_food,sizing1_food,sizing1_food,sizing1_food,sizing1_food,sizing1_food,sizing1_food,sizing1_food,
sizing1_nfood, sizing1_nfood,sizing1_nfood,sizing1_nfood,sizing1_nfood,sizing1_nfood,sizing1_nfood,sizing1_nfood,sizing1_nfood,sizing1_nfood,sizing1_nfood,sizing1_nfood)]

/ branch =[if (values.block_nr == 1) {block.sizing2_task;}]
/ branch =[if (values.block_nr == 2) {noreplace(block.estimate1_task, block.estimate2_task)}]
/ branch =[if (values.block_nr == 3) {block.sizing2_task}]
</block>

[/quote]

I'm afraid I simply (still) don't understand what exactly it is you wish to do.
I'm sure that's my fault, but can you please provide a concrete, detailed description of what exactly you want the end result to be? Thanks.

[/quote]

Hi Dave,
Sorry for my poor description ... it's more difficult to explain than to do probably.

"Specifically, I'm having trouble what you consider to be a "pair" and how those food / non-food "pairs" are ultimately supposed to be presented in relation to one another. "
As pair I consider the item food and non-food with the same number. For example "03_nonF.jpg" (from <item non_food>) need to be in the same task - or block - of the item with the same number (in this case 3) from <item food> (i.e. "03_h_svr.jpg"). "03_nonF.jpg" and "03_h_svr.jpg" is an example of what I call "pair".

"It's not really clear to me what you are referring to as "4 tasks" (do you mean the <block>s?)"
That's right, with "4 tasks" I mean the blocks yes (i.e. sizing1_task, sizing2_task, estimate1_task, estimate2_task).

"and how those relate to the "pair" issue."
In total there are 24 <item non_food> and 24 <item food>, so let's say 24 pairs of items. The reason why I call them pairs is because both items (with the correspondent number) need to be in the same task (or block) and they cannot be presented in different tasks. For example the two items in the pair nr 3 (described above) need to be both presented in the sizing1_task (and estimate1_task or estimate2_task as I will describe later*).
The two items do not need to be contiguous but they can be mixed randomly with the other 22 trials (showing items) of the task. These other trials follow the same principle, so they are 11 "pairs" (that can be randomised in the same task).

* = the pairs are 24 in total ( = 48 trials). The experiment has 4 tasks with 24 trials each (12 pairs). The tasks are presented in a way that the two tasks of the same type [e.g. sizing1_task and sizing2_task] present all the 24 pairs. In the other type of task (e.g. estimate1_task and estimate2_task) the same pairs are repeated following the same principle (they don't need to be presented in the same order than the "sizing" tasks).
[With type of task, I mean sizing - that includes sizing1_task and sizing_2_task - and estimate that includes estimate1_task and estimate2_task. Tasks of the same type are contiguous]

My issue here is that I cannot pair the items in the same task, given the fact that in a task the sequence of 12 food items (or trials) and 12 non food items (or trials) is presented randomly.

For example: if the experiment starts with the estimate task type I would like to select randomly 12 of the 24 numbers (to choose the item pairs to present in estimate1_task) and to present the remaining pairs in the following task (estimate2_task).

pairs for the estimate1_task:	1	3	5	6	10	12	14	15	17	19	22	24
remaining pairs for the estimate2_task:	2	4	7	8	9	11	13	16	18	20	21	23

So the items presented will be:

trial	estimate1_task	item nr
1	/1 = "01_nonF.jpg"	1
2	/5 = "05_h_svr.jpg"	5
3	/6 = "06_nonF.jpg"	6
4	/14 = "14_h_svr.jpg"	14
5	/17 = "17_nonF.jpg"	17
6	/19 = "19_unh_swt.jpg"	19
7	/22 = "22_nonF.jpg"	22
8	/19 = "19_nonF.jpg"	19
9	/12 = "12_nonF.jpg"	12
10	/6 = "06_un_swt.jpg"	6
11	/10 = "10_un_swt.jpg"	10
12	/10 = "10_nonF.jpg"	10
13	/22 = "22_unh_svr.jpg"	22
14	/3 = "03_nonF.jpg"	3
15	/3 = "03_h_svr.jpg"	3
16	/1 = "01_h_swt.jpg"	1
17	/12 = "12_h_swt.jpg"	12
18	/14 = "14_nonF.jpg"	14
19	/15 = "15_nonF.jpg"	15
20	/15 = "15_un_svr.jpg"	15
21	/17 = "17_h_swt.jpg"	17
22	/5 = "05_nonF.jpg"	5
23	/24 = "24_nonF.jpg"	24
24	/24 = "24_unh_svr.jpg"	24

trial	estimate2_task	item nr
1	/9 = "09_nonF.jpg"	9
2	/16 = "16_nonF.jpg"	16
3	/13 = "13_h_swt.jpg"	13
4	/7 = "07_nonF.jpg"	7
5	/9 = "09_un_swt.jpg"	9
6	/8 = "08_nonF.jpg"	8
7	/21 = "21_h_swt.jpg"	21
8	/20 = "20_nonF.jpg"	20
9	/23 = "23_nonF.jpg"	23
10	/7 = "07_un_svr.jpg"	7
11	/4 = "04_un_swt.jpg"	4
12	/2 = "02_h_swt.jpg"	3
13	/4 = "04_nonF.jpg"	4
14	/11 = "11_nonF.jpg"	11
15	/11 = "11_un_svr.jpg"	11
16	/18 = "18_nonF.jpg"	18
17	/18 = "18_h_svr.jpg"	18
18	/21 = "21_nonF.jpg"	21
19	/20 = "20_h_svr.jpg"	20
20	/23 = "23_unh_svr.jpg"	23
21	/13 = "13_nonF.jpg"	13
22	/16 = "16_h_svr.jpg"	16
23	/8 = "08_un_swt.jpg"	8
24	/2 = "02_nonF.jpg"	2

Similarly for the other type of tasks (sizing).

Al lot of words sorry, probably everything could be explain in one sentence or two... I hope I did not generate more confusion. Thank you again for all your work.

[/quote]

Thanks for the explanation, that makes things clearer. Then, the only way to pull that off, is to set up a bunch of empty <list> elements for your different "tasks" and then fill them with item numbers to use /onexptbegin. I.e. have a "main" list containing your 24 item numbers. Then pick 12 item numbers at random and store them in an empty <list> for the sizing1 "task". Use that list for item selection during that phase; Pick the remaining 12 item numbers at random and store them in a <list> to use during the sizing2 task.
for the two "sizing" tasks. There is no easier way, I'm afraid, you can find an example doing something similar here: https://www.millisecond.com/forums/Topic21763.aspx or here https://www.millisecond.com/forums/FindPost13295.aspx

[/quote]

It works fine now, thank you so much!

RE: no matching image numbers in the same task

Dave — Wed, 18 Jul 2018 09:04:27 GMT

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Wednesday, July 18, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]Dave - Tuesday, July 17, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Tuesday, July 17, 2018[/b]

/ onblockbegin = [values.trial_nr = 0]

[/quote]

pairs for the estimate1_task:	1	3	5	6	10	12	14	15	17	19	22	24
remaining pairs for the estimate2_task:	2	4	7	8	9	11	13	16	18	20	21	23

So the items presented will be:

trial	estimate1_task	item nr
1	/1 = "01_nonF.jpg"	1
2	/5 = "05_h_svr.jpg"	5
3	/6 = "06_nonF.jpg"	6
4	/14 = "14_h_svr.jpg"	14
5	/17 = "17_nonF.jpg"	17
6	/19 = "19_unh_swt.jpg"	19
7	/22 = "22_nonF.jpg"	22
8	/19 = "19_nonF.jpg"	19
9	/12 = "12_nonF.jpg"	12
10	/6 = "06_un_swt.jpg"	6
11	/10 = "10_un_swt.jpg"	10
12	/10 = "10_nonF.jpg"	10
13	/22 = "22_unh_svr.jpg"	22
14	/3 = "03_nonF.jpg"	3
15	/3 = "03_h_svr.jpg"	3
16	/1 = "01_h_swt.jpg"	1
17	/12 = "12_h_swt.jpg"	12
18	/14 = "14_nonF.jpg"	14
19	/15 = "15_nonF.jpg"	15
20	/15 = "15_un_svr.jpg"	15
21	/17 = "17_h_swt.jpg"	17
22	/5 = "05_nonF.jpg"	5
23	/24 = "24_nonF.jpg"	24
24	/24 = "24_unh_svr.jpg"	24

trial	estimate2_task	item nr
1	/9 = "09_nonF.jpg"	9
2	/16 = "16_nonF.jpg"	16
3	/13 = "13_h_swt.jpg"	13
4	/7 = "07_nonF.jpg"	7
5	/9 = "09_un_swt.jpg"	9
6	/8 = "08_nonF.jpg"	8
7	/21 = "21_h_swt.jpg"	21
8	/20 = "20_nonF.jpg"	20
9	/23 = "23_nonF.jpg"	23
10	/7 = "07_un_svr.jpg"	7
11	/4 = "04_un_swt.jpg"	4
12	/2 = "02_h_swt.jpg"	3
13	/4 = "04_nonF.jpg"	4
14	/11 = "11_nonF.jpg"	11
15	/11 = "11_un_svr.jpg"	11
16	/18 = "18_nonF.jpg"	18
17	/18 = "18_h_svr.jpg"	18
18	/21 = "21_nonF.jpg"	21
19	/20 = "20_h_svr.jpg"	20
20	/23 = "23_unh_svr.jpg"	23
21	/13 = "13_nonF.jpg"	13
22	/16 = "16_h_svr.jpg"	16
23	/8 = "08_un_swt.jpg"	8
24	/2 = "02_nonF.jpg"	2

[/quote]

RE: no matching image numbers in the same task

tecnika — Wed, 18 Jul 2018 02:27:32 GMT

[quote]

[b]Dave - Tuesday, July 17, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Tuesday, July 17, 2018[/b]

/ onblockbegin = [values.trial_nr = 0]

[/quote]

pairs for the estimate1_task:	1	3	5	6	10	12	14	15	17	19	22	24
remaining pairs for the estimate2_task:	2	4	7	8	9	11	13	16	18	20	21	23

So the items presented will be:

trial	estimate1_task	item nr
1	/1 = "01_nonF.jpg"	1
2	/5 = "05_h_svr.jpg"	5
3	/6 = "06_nonF.jpg"	6
4	/14 = "14_h_svr.jpg"	14
5	/17 = "17_nonF.jpg"	17
6	/19 = "19_unh_swt.jpg"	19
7	/22 = "22_nonF.jpg"	22
8	/19 = "19_nonF.jpg"	19
9	/12 = "12_nonF.jpg"	12
10	/6 = "06_un_swt.jpg"	6
11	/10 = "10_un_swt.jpg"	10
12	/10 = "10_nonF.jpg"	10
13	/22 = "22_unh_svr.jpg"	22
14	/3 = "03_nonF.jpg"	3
15	/3 = "03_h_svr.jpg"	3
16	/1 = "01_h_swt.jpg"	1
17	/12 = "12_h_swt.jpg"	12
18	/14 = "14_nonF.jpg"	14
19	/15 = "15_nonF.jpg"	15
20	/15 = "15_un_svr.jpg"	15
21	/17 = "17_h_swt.jpg"	17
22	/5 = "05_nonF.jpg"	5
23	/24 = "24_nonF.jpg"	24
24	/24 = "24_unh_svr.jpg"	24

trial	estimate2_task	item nr
1	/9 = "09_nonF.jpg"	9
2	/16 = "16_nonF.jpg"	16
3	/13 = "13_h_swt.jpg"	13
4	/7 = "07_nonF.jpg"	7
5	/9 = "09_un_swt.jpg"	9
6	/8 = "08_nonF.jpg"	8
7	/21 = "21_h_swt.jpg"	21
8	/20 = "20_nonF.jpg"	20
9	/23 = "23_nonF.jpg"	23
10	/7 = "07_un_svr.jpg"	7
11	/4 = "04_un_swt.jpg"	4
12	/2 = "02_h_swt.jpg"	3
13	/4 = "04_nonF.jpg"	4
14	/11 = "11_nonF.jpg"	11
15	/11 = "11_un_svr.jpg"	11
16	/18 = "18_nonF.jpg"	18
17	/18 = "18_h_svr.jpg"	18
18	/21 = "21_nonF.jpg"	21
19	/20 = "20_h_svr.jpg"	20
20	/23 = "23_unh_svr.jpg"	23
21	/13 = "13_nonF.jpg"	13
22	/16 = "16_h_svr.jpg"	16
23	/8 = "08_un_swt.jpg"	8
24	/2 = "02_nonF.jpg"	2

RE: no matching image numbers in the same task

Dave — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 09:35:47 GMT

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Tuesday, July 17, 2018[/b]

/ onblockbegin = [values.trial_nr = 0]

[/quote]

I'm afraid I simply (still) don't understand what exactly it is you wish to do. Specifically, I'm having trouble what you consider to be a "pair" and how those food / non-food "pairs" are ultimately supposed to be presented in relation to one another. It's not really clear to me what you are referring to as "4 tasks" (do you mean the <block>s?) and how those relate to the "pair" issue.

I'm sure that's my fault, but can you please provide a concrete, detailed description of what exactly you want the end result to be? Thanks.

RE: no matching image numbers in the same task

tecnika — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 09:19:14 GMT

[quote]

[b]Dave - Monday, July 16, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Monday, July 16, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]Dave - Friday, July 13, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Friday, July 13, 2018[/b]

[/quote]

Sorry, I don't understand the description of what you want. I also do not see any place in the script where you actually defined any pairs. Please provide a more detailed description of what exactly you want to achieve and please refer to the relevant pieces of code exactly as they are named in the script. Thanks.

[/quote]

Hi Dave, sorry I meant pairing item "N" in <item food> with the correspondent item number in <item food> (or vice versa)
e.g. 03_nonF.jpg with 3_h_swr.jpg. The pairs of items would need to be in the same task and then using different pairs in the second task. The total pairs are 24, so it's ok to repeat the item pairs in the other two tasks (always in a random order). The total number of task is 4, with a total of 48 pairs of trials.

<item non_food>
/1 = "01_nonF.jpg"
/2 = "02_nonF.jpg"
/3 = "03_nonF.jpg"
/4 = "04_nonF.jpg"
/5 = "05_nonF.jpg"
/6 = "06_nonF.jpg"
/7 = "07_nonF.jpg"
/8 = "08_nonF.jpg"
/9 = "09_nonF.jpg"
/10 = "10_nonF.jpg"
/11 = "11_nonF.jpg"
/12 = "12_nonF.jpg"
/13 = "13_nonF.jpg"
/14 = "14_nonF.jpg"
/15 = "15_nonF.jpg"
/16 = "16_nonF.jpg"
/17 = "17_nonF.jpg"
/18 = "18_nonF.jpg"
/19 = "19_nonF.jpg"
/20 = "20_nonF.jpg"
/21 = "21_nonF.jpg"
/22 = "22_nonF.jpg"
/23 = "23_nonF.jpg"
/24 = "24_nonF.jpg"
</item>

<item food>
/1 = "01_h_swt.jpg"
/2 = "02_h_swt.jpg"
/3 = "03_h_svr.jpg"
/4 = "04_un_swt.jpg"
/5 = "05_h_svr.jpg"
/6 = "06_un_swt.jpg"
/7 = "07_un_svr.jpg"
/8 = "08_un_swt.jpg"
/9 = "09_un_swt.jpg"
/10 = "10_un_swt.jpg"
/11 = "11_un_svr.jpg"
/12 = "12_h_swt.jpg"
/13 = "13_h_swt.jpg"
/14 = "14_h_svr.jpg"
/15 = "15_un_svr.jpg"
/16 = "16_h_svr.jpg"
/17 = "17_h_swt.jpg"
/18 = "18_h_svr.jpg"
/19 = "19_unh_swt.jpg"
/20 = "20_h_svr.jpg"
/21 = "21_h_swt.jpg"
/22 = "22_unh_svr.jpg"
/23 = "23_unh_svr.jpg"
/24 = "24_unh_svr.jpg"
</item>

Hope I was able to be a bit clearer. Thank you, Elena

[/quote]

Pairing items works like this: https://www.millisecond.com/support/docs/v5/html/howto/howtopairs.htm

And it works the same way if you use list elements holding item numbers.

[/quote]

/ onblockbegin = [values.trial_nr = 0]

RE: no matching image numbers in the same task

Dave — Mon, 16 Jul 2018 09:28:21 GMT

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Monday, July 16, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]Dave - Friday, July 13, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Friday, July 13, 2018[/b]

[/quote]

Pairing items works like this: https://www.millisecond.com/support/docs/v5/html/howto/howtopairs.htm

And it works the same way if you use list elements holding item numbers.

RE: no matching image numbers in the same task

tecnika — Mon, 16 Jul 2018 01:22:39 GMT

[quote]

[b]Dave - Friday, July 13, 2018[/b]

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Friday, July 13, 2018[/b]

[/quote]

RE: no matching image numbers in the same task

Dave — Fri, 13 Jul 2018 09:07:21 GMT

[quote]

[b]tecnika - Friday, July 13, 2018[/b]

[/quote]